Help needed for debugging jackd with alsa asym+multi plugins

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Help needed for debugging jackd with alsa asym+multi plugins

Pasi Kärkkäinen
Hi!

I'm trying to run jackd with multi + asym plugins in ~/.asoundrc, but I get
"ALSA: poll time out, polled for 17407547 usecs" messages all the time from
jackd..

.asounrdc available here:
http://nrg.joroinen.fi/asoundrc-asym.txt

Ok.. you might ask why I need multi + asym plugins? Well.. the whole point
is to combine two ice1712 cards (M-Audio Delta 1010LT's) for use in studio
multichannel recording. Therefore "multi" plugin is needed to combine the
channels and to create one virtual "jackmulti" device which jackd can use.

One virtual combined device is needed because jackd supports only one
card/device.

In these tests I haven't (yet) combined the cards, so this problem happens
with one/single ice1712 card!

Now, these ice1712 cards have 12 channels in, and 10 channels out.
Asymmetric channel count. Jackd won't start with this kind of asymmetric
"jackmulti" device. Therefore I use "asym" plugin to create "duplex" device,
which has symmetric channel count in and out.

Jackd starts fine with this multi+asym "jackmulti" device.

The problem is this:

$ jackd -d alsa -d jackmulti -r 44100 -p 512
jackd 0.100.0
Copyright 2001-2005 Paul Davis and others.
jackd comes with ABSOLUTELY NO WARRANTY
This is free software, and you are welcome to redistribute it
under certain conditions; see the file COPYING for details

JACK compiled with System V SHM support.
loading driver ..
apparent rate = 44100
creating alsa driver ...
jackmulti|jackmulti|512|2|44100|0|0|nomon|swmeter|-|32bit
configuring for 44100Hz, period = 512 frames, buffer = 2 periods
nperiods = 2 for capture
nperiods = 2 for playback
ALSA: poll time out, polled for 17407870 usecs
ALSA: poll time out, polled for 17407477 usecs
....


Those "poll time out" messages are printed all the time, even if I don't
start any jack clients!

If I start jackd with -P or -C parameter, it will work OK and I don't get
those poll time outs! (And audio can be played normally etc).

I'm running Debian unstable, with 2.6.14-1-686-smp kernel. The same problem
was with 2.6.12-1-686-smp kernel.

I have patched/recompiled debian jackd packege with MMAP_COMPLEX
support/patch.

Thanks for your help/comments/suggestions!

-- Pasi Kärkkäinen
       
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Re: Help needed for debugging jackd with alsa asym+multi plugins

Jared Kazimir
Hello.

I've been having exactly the same problem myself, but with the Delta
1010 breakout box instead of the LT.  I've been trying to run them
together in jack on a 3.0G pentium4, 1G mem, running on archlinux.  Just
letting you know I have the hardware, if you need someone to test stuff out.

-Jared

Pasi Kärkkäinen wrote:

>Hi!
>
>I'm trying to run jackd with multi + asym plugins in ~/.asoundrc, but I get
>"ALSA: poll time out, polled for 17407547 usecs" messages all the time from
>jackd..
>
>.asounrdc available here:
>http://nrg.joroinen.fi/asoundrc-asym.txt
>
>Ok.. you might ask why I need multi + asym plugins? Well.. the whole point
>is to combine two ice1712 cards (M-Audio Delta 1010LT's) for use in studio
>multichannel recording. Therefore "multi" plugin is needed to combine the
>channels and to create one virtual "jackmulti" device which jackd can use.
>
>One virtual combined device is needed because jackd supports only one
>card/device.
>
>In these tests I haven't (yet) combined the cards, so this problem happens
>with one/single ice1712 card!
>
>Now, these ice1712 cards have 12 channels in, and 10 channels out.
>Asymmetric channel count. Jackd won't start with this kind of asymmetric
>"jackmulti" device. Therefore I use "asym" plugin to create "duplex" device,
>which has symmetric channel count in and out.
>
>Jackd starts fine with this multi+asym "jackmulti" device.
>
>The problem is this:
>
>$ jackd -d alsa -d jackmulti -r 44100 -p 512
>jackd 0.100.0
>Copyright 2001-2005 Paul Davis and others.
>jackd comes with ABSOLUTELY NO WARRANTY
>This is free software, and you are welcome to redistribute it
>under certain conditions; see the file COPYING for details
>
>JACK compiled with System V SHM support.
>loading driver ..
>apparent rate = 44100
>creating alsa driver ...
>jackmulti|jackmulti|512|2|44100|0|0|nomon|swmeter|-|32bit
>configuring for 44100Hz, period = 512 frames, buffer = 2 periods
>nperiods = 2 for capture
>nperiods = 2 for playback
>ALSA: poll time out, polled for 17407870 usecs
>ALSA: poll time out, polled for 17407477 usecs
>....
>
>
>Those "poll time out" messages are printed all the time, even if I don't
>start any jack clients!
>
>If I start jackd with -P or -C parameter, it will work OK and I don't get
>those poll time outs! (And audio can be played normally etc).
>
>I'm running Debian unstable, with 2.6.14-1-686-smp kernel. The same problem
>was with 2.6.12-1-686-smp kernel.
>
>I have patched/recompiled debian jackd packege with MMAP_COMPLEX
>support/patch.
>
>Thanks for your help/comments/suggestions!
>
>-- Pasi Kärkkäinen
>      
>                                   ^
>                                .     .
>                                 Linux
>                              /    -    \
>                             Choice.of.the
>                           .Next.Generation.
>
>
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>  
>



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Re: Help needed for debugging jackd with alsa asym+multi plugins

John Rigg-3
In reply to this post by Pasi Kärkkäinen
On Wed, Nov 02, 2005 at 11:14:25PM +0200, Pasi Kärkkäinen wrote:

> Ok.. you might ask why I need multi + asym plugins? Well.. the whole point
> is to combine two ice1712 cards (M-Audio Delta 1010LT's) for use in studio
> multichannel recording. Therefore "multi" plugin is needed to combine the
> channels and to create one virtual "jackmulti" device which jackd can use.
>
> One virtual combined device is needed because jackd supports only one
> card/device.
>
> In these tests I haven't (yet) combined the cards, so this problem happens
> with one/single ice1712 card!
>
> Now, these ice1712 cards have 12 channels in, and 10 channels out.

I'm having the same problems with two Delta1010s. I'd be very interested to
hear if anyone has managed to make these work.

Regards,
John


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Re: Help needed for debugging jackd with alsa asym+multi plugins

Pasi Kärkkäinen
On Thu, Nov 03, 2005 at 03:12:04PM +0000, John Rigg wrote:

> On Wed, Nov 02, 2005 at 11:14:25PM +0200, Pasi Kärkkäinen wrote:
> > Ok.. you might ask why I need multi + asym plugins? Well.. the whole point
> > is to combine two ice1712 cards (M-Audio Delta 1010LT's) for use in studio
> > multichannel recording. Therefore "multi" plugin is needed to combine the
> > channels and to create one virtual "jackmulti" device which jackd can use.
> >
> > One virtual combined device is needed because jackd supports only one
> > card/device.
> >
> > In these tests I haven't (yet) combined the cards, so this problem happens
> > with one/single ice1712 card!
> >
> > Now, these ice1712 cards have 12 channels in, and 10 channels out.
>
> I'm having the same problems with two Delta1010s. I'd be very interested to
> hear if anyone has managed to make these work.
>

Just to be sure..  you guys get the same "poll time out" messages when using asym plugin in
asoundrc?

- Pasi

> Regards,
> John
>
>
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Re: Help needed for debugging jackd with alsa asym+multi plugins

John Rigg-3
On Thu, Nov 03, 2005 at 05:42:20PM +0200, Pasi Kärkkäinen wrote:
> > I'm having the same problems with two Delta1010s. I'd be very interested to
> > hear if anyone has managed to make these work.
>
> Just to be sure..  you guys get the same "poll time out" messages when using asym plugin in
> asoundrc?

Pasi,
Sorry I should have been more specific. I haven't got as far as seeing
the `poll time out'. Over the last few weeks I've been trying to get a
-rt patched kernel to work on x86_64 SMP. Now it's working, but of course
2.6.14 has a later version of Alsa than my distro so I need to recompile
all my audio apps. As soon as I've got a new version of jackd working
(it'll be a few days before I get time) I'll report my results with the
asym plugin.

John


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Re: Help needed for debugging jackd with alsa asym+multi plugins

Lee Revell
On Thu, 2005-11-03 at 22:17 +0000, John Rigg wrote:
> 2.6.14 has a later version of Alsa than my distro so I need to recompile
> all my audio apps.

Why?  ALSA 1.0.9 and 1.0.10 are binary compatible.

Lee



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Re: Help needed for debugging jackd with alsa asym+multi plugins

Jared Kazimir
In reply to this post by Pasi Kärkkäinen
Yes..  Your first description is pretty much exactly what I've been getting.

-Jared

Pasi Kärkkäinen wrote:

>On Thu, Nov 03, 2005 at 03:12:04PM +0000, John Rigg wrote:
>  
>
>>On Wed, Nov 02, 2005 at 11:14:25PM +0200, Pasi Kärkkäinen wrote:
>>    
>>
>>>Ok.. you might ask why I need multi + asym plugins? Well.. the whole point
>>>is to combine two ice1712 cards (M-Audio Delta 1010LT's) for use in studio
>>>multichannel recording. Therefore "multi" plugin is needed to combine the
>>>channels and to create one virtual "jackmulti" device which jackd can use.
>>>
>>>One virtual combined device is needed because jackd supports only one
>>>card/device.
>>>
>>>In these tests I haven't (yet) combined the cards, so this problem happens
>>>with one/single ice1712 card!
>>>
>>>Now, these ice1712 cards have 12 channels in, and 10 channels out.
>>>      
>>>
>>I'm having the same problems with two Delta1010s. I'd be very interested to
>>hear if anyone has managed to make these work.
>>
>>    
>>
>
>Just to be sure..  you guys get the same "poll time out" messages when using asym plugin in
>asoundrc?
>
>- Pasi
>
>  
>
>>Regards,
>>John
>>
>>
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>>https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jackit-devel
>>    
>>
>
>  
>



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Re: Help needed for debugging jackd with alsa asym+multi plugins

John Rigg-3
In reply to this post by Lee Revell
On Thu, Nov 03, 2005 at 05:34:46PM -0500, Lee Revell wrote:
> On Thu, 2005-11-03 at 22:17 +0000, John Rigg wrote:
> > 2.6.14 has a later version of Alsa than my distro so I need to recompile
> > all my audio apps.
>
> Why?  ALSA 1.0.9 and 1.0.10 are binary compatible.

My mistake. I'm assuming that I at least need to recompile the alsa user
space stuff. I also want to try mmap_complex support in jackd, so I need
to recompile that (and presumably jack clients like ardour).

John


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Re: Help needed for debugging jackd with alsa asym+multi plugins

John Rigg-3
In reply to this post by Pasi Kärkkäinen
On Wed, Nov 02, 2005 at 11:14:25PM +0200, Pasi Kärkkäinen wrote:
> I'm trying to run jackd with multi + asym plugins in ~/.asoundrc, but I get
> "ALSA: poll time out, polled for 17407547 usecs" messages all the time from
> jackd..
>
> .asounrdc available here:
> http://nrg.joroinen.fi/asoundrc-asym.txt

> I have patched/recompiled debian jackd packege with MMAP_COMPLEX
> support/patch.

Pasi

Have you tried removing the route plugin section from your .asoundrc?
As I understand it, two ice1712 cards give two non-interleaved blocks
of 12 interleaved channels for capture (not sure about playback).
The mmap_complex patch should allow jack to handle this without further
interleaving from the route plugin.
I haven't had a chance to try this myself (still setting up my system)
but hope to try later this week.

John


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Re: Help needed for debugging jackd with alsa asym+multi plugins

Pasi Kärkkäinen
On Sun, Nov 06, 2005 at 09:05:15PM +0000, John Rigg wrote:

> On Wed, Nov 02, 2005 at 11:14:25PM +0200, Pasi Kärkkäinen wrote:
> > I'm trying to run jackd with multi + asym plugins in ~/.asoundrc, but I get
> > "ALSA: poll time out, polled for 17407547 usecs" messages all the time from
> > jackd..
> >
> > .asounrdc available here:
> > http://nrg.joroinen.fi/asoundrc-asym.txt
>
> > I have patched/recompiled debian jackd packege with MMAP_COMPLEX
> > support/patch.
>
> Pasi
>
> Have you tried removing the route plugin section from your .asoundrc?
> As I understand it, two ice1712 cards give two non-interleaved blocks
> of 12 interleaved channels for capture (not sure about playback).
> The mmap_complex patch should allow jack to handle this without further
> interleaving from the route plugin.
> I haven't had a chance to try this myself (still setting up my system)
> but hope to try later this week.
>

Hi!

Nope.. but I'll try that!

I'll let you know what happens. Hopefully I have time this weeked to test
more.
 
- Pasi

> John
>
>
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Re: Help needed for debugging jackd with alsa asym+multi plugins

John Rigg-3
On Fri, Nov 11, 2005 at 06:25:03PM +0200, Pasi Kärkkäinen wrote:
> On Sun, Nov 06, 2005 at 09:05:15PM +0000, John Rigg wrote:
> > Have you tried removing the route plugin section from your .asoundrc?

Pasi

I just tried your .asoundrc with the route plugin section commented out.
I'm using jack 0.100.7 with MMAP_COMPLEX support added,
alsa-lib-1.0.10rc2 and 2.6.14-rt6 x86_64 SMP kernel.
I'm using set_rtlimits-1.1.0 to set rt priority to 80 for audio group.
I'm getting the poll timeouts you reported when I try to run
multi_duplex in duplex mode. If I use the -P or -C options it runs, but only
on 8 channels. jackd hasn't complained about the lack of a ttable, but
with only 8 channels I can't tell if MMAP_COMPLEX is working.
Here are the messages from jackd:

jackd -d alsa -d multi_duplex -p 128
_____________________________________

getting driver descriptor from /usr/local/lib/jack/jack_alsa.so
getting driver descriptor from /usr/local/lib/jack/jack_dummy.so
getting driver descriptor from /usr/local/lib/jack/jack_oss.so
jackd 0.100.7
Copyright 2001-2005 Paul Davis and others.
jackd comes with ABSOLUTELY NO WARRANTY
This is free software, and you are welcome to redistribute it
under certain conditions; see the file COPYING for details

JACK compiled with System V SHM support.
server `default' registered
loading driver ..
creating alsa driver ... multi_duplex|multi_duplex|128|2|48000|0|0|nomon|swmeter|-|32bit
configuring for 48000Hz, period = 128 frames, buffer = 2 periods
nperiods = 2 for capture
nperiods = 2 for playback
3389 waiting for signals
ALSA: poll time out, polled for 938506 usecs
DRIVER NT: could not run driver cycle
jack main caught signal 12
registered builtin port type 32 bit float mono audio
new client: alsa_pcm, id = 1 type 1 @ 0x510c20 fd = -1
new buffer size 128
registered port alsa_pcm:capture_1, offset = 512
registered port alsa_pcm:capture_2, offset = 1024
registered port alsa_pcm:capture_3, offset = 1536
registered port alsa_pcm:capture_4, offset = 2048
registered port alsa_pcm:capture_5, offset = 2560
registered port alsa_pcm:capture_6, offset = 3072
registered port alsa_pcm:capture_7, offset = 3584
registered port alsa_pcm:capture_8, offset = 4096
registered port alsa_pcm:playback_1, offset = 0
registered port alsa_pcm:playback_2, offset = 0
registered port alsa_pcm:playback_3, offset = 0
registered port alsa_pcm:playback_4, offset = 0
registered port alsa_pcm:playback_5, offset = 0
registered port alsa_pcm:playback_6, offset = 0
registered port alsa_pcm:playback_7, offset = 0
registered port alsa_pcm:playback_8, offset = 0
++ jack_rechain_graph():
client alsa_pcm: internal client, execution_order=0.
-- jack_rechain_graph()
starting server engine shutdown
freeing shared port segments
stopping server thread
last xrun delay: 0.000 usecs
max delay reported by backend: 0.000 usecs
freeing engine shared memory
max usecs: 0.000, engine deleted
no message buffer overruns
cleaning up shared memory
cleaning up files
unregistering server `default'


jackd -d alsa -d multi_duplex -P -p 128
________________________________________

<snip>
loading driver ..
creating alsa driver ... multi_duplex|-|128|2|48000|0|0|nomon|swmeter|-|32bit
configuring for 48000Hz, period = 128 frames, buffer = 2 periods
nperiods = 2 for playback
registered builtin port type 32 bit float mono audio
new client: alsa_pcm, id = 1 type 1 @ 0x510ca0 fd = -1
new buffer size 128
registered port alsa_pcm:playback_1, offset = 0
registered port alsa_pcm:playback_2, offset = 0
registered port alsa_pcm:playback_3, offset = 0
registered port alsa_pcm:playback_4, offset = 0
registered port alsa_pcm:playback_5, offset = 0
registered port alsa_pcm:playback_6, offset = 0
registered port alsa_pcm:playback_7, offset = 0
registered port alsa_pcm:playback_8, offset = 0
++ jack_rechain_graph():
client alsa_pcm: internal client, execution_order=0.
-- jack_rechain_graph()
3367 waiting for signals
load = 0.0563 max usecs: 3.000, spare = 2663.000
load = 0.0844 max usecs: 3.000, spare = 2663.000
load = 0.0797 max usecs: 2.000, spare = 2664.000
load = 0.0774 max usecs: 2.000, spare = 2664.000
load = 0.0762 max usecs: 2.000, spare = 2664.000
</snip>

jackd -d alsa -d multi_duplex -C -p 128
____________________________________

<snip>
loading driver ..
registered builtin port type 32 bit float mono audio
new client: alsa_pcm, id = 1 type 1 @ 0x510ca0 fd = -1
creating alsa driver ... -|multi_duplex|128|2|48000|0|0|nomon|swmeter|-|32bit
configuring for 48000Hz, period = 128 frames, buffer = 2 periods
nperiods = 2 for capture
new buffer size 128
registered port alsa_pcm:capture_1, offset = 512
registered port alsa_pcm:capture_2, offset = 1024
registered port alsa_pcm:capture_3, offset = 1536
registered port alsa_pcm:capture_4, offset = 2048
registered port alsa_pcm:capture_5, offset = 2560
registered port alsa_pcm:capture_6, offset = 3072
registered port alsa_pcm:capture_7, offset = 3584
registered port alsa_pcm:capture_8, offset = 4096
++ jack_rechain_graph():
client alsa_pcm: internal client, execution_order=0.
-- jack_rechain_graph()
3378 waiting for signals
load = 0.0375 max usecs: 2.000, spare = 2664.000
load = 0.0563 max usecs: 2.000, spare = 2664.000
load = 0.0656 max usecs: 2.000, spare = 2664.000
load = 0.0703 max usecs: 2.000, spare = 2664.000
load = 0.0727 max usecs: 2.000, spare = 2664.000
load = 0.0926 max usecs: 3.000, spare = 2663.000
</snip>

John


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