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Re: Full-featured mixers

Tim-2
On 3/26/19 8:02 PM, Tim wrote:

> About mixers: I get why Pulse Audio Volume tray (and Windows)
>   and the Pulse Audio configuration want to show just what's
>   relevant for day-to-day operations. It works well.
> But... to this day I still don't see any hardware volume controls
>   when I click my PAV mixer icon or go into Configure Audio Volume,
>   at least on my KDE distro.
> I don't understand why they don't include KMixer or something,
>   which last time I checked was fairly capable of listing ALL the
>   ALSA controls on my ice1712 delta-1010. That's a lot of 'em.
> Or why not integrate HW controls into Pulse?
> I don't understand why they don't expose them since Pulse
>   already works pretty close to hardware level, no?
>
> Hey OP with 1818vsl: I see the device is supposed to work with ALSA.
> If you have a desktop with a mixer icon, when you click it does
>   it let you see those very volume controls that affected you?
>
> No?

(First, apologies to Fons for the misquote, you are right.)

Hey guys! I just spent two hours researching mixers.
What a lousy state of affairs.

If it's true a user had trouble because of some hardware volumes
  being zero and/or not visible in a mixer and/or non-adjustable,
  it kinda makes me sad, I hate to see things fail like that.

Remember when the broken alsa mixer gui was the only gui solution?

When I contributed patches to the SoundBlaster Live! kernel module,
  and very heavy patches to the busted support applications
  (for loading the DSP with your own programs on gui canvas etc.)
  there was one more piece of the puzzle I needed: An ALSA mixer
  that could handle dynamically created/destroyed ALSA controls
  which the SB DSP could actually cause. No gui mixer handled this.
So I found an fledgling one, I think called QasMixer, and proceeded
  to add the missing functionality. Code sits somewhere here.
Fast forward a year or two and finally mixers started to show
  everything. I recall after a distro update I think KMixer
  was very cool. I clicked the new mixer and said yeah,
  that's it they've finally come around.

So tonight I read this blog:
https://fitzcarraldoblog.wordpress.com/2011/03/28/nostalgia-for-those-alsa-mixer-channels-that-kmix-and-gnome-volume-control-used-to-have/

He shares my nostalgia, for sure. Lo and behold I see he mentions
  a trick to get the modern KMix to show ALSA *not* Pulse, and how
  to make it permanent.
"export KMIX_PULSEAUDIO_DISABLE=1 && kmix"

But... unfortunately it's either Pulse or ALSA, not both at
  the same time in KMix. What the heck? A hidden export?

So as a /general/ mixer I heartily recommend recent QasMixer to
  any KDE/Qt fans. Yeah, it's still active and pretty cool. Qt5 now.

I don't think there's anything like it. Is there? Try it and tell me
  if you agree. I think this topic is important - one of the most
  important to a Linux user, look what may have happened to the OP here.
QasMixer might be important. Don't let it... fade.
https://sourceforge.net/projects/qastools/

Thanks.
Tim.
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Re: Full-featured mixers

Ralf Mardorf
Hi,

tomorrow is April Fools' Day, it's not today.

Changing the subject within a thread is bizarre, at least consider to
start a new thread with new References/Message-ID headers and a subject
like "Full-featured mixers - Was: Jack Problems" next time.

However, since audio device hardware mixers are not related to jack,
there unlikely is large attendance on this jack related mailing list.

Btw. GUIs for alsamixer gain nothing for USB compliant devices that
don't have alsamixer volume controls.

My opinion regarding QasMixer:

Running the ncurses user interface alsamixer in ROXTerm, or your
terminal emu GUI of choice, is nearly the same as using a GUI. I suspect
for most of us it doesn't make a big difference. Anyway, usually class
compliant USB devices don't have alsamixer volume controls and some
cards sometimes don't work well when using alsamixer. I experienced
issues (probably bugs) when using an Envy24 card with alsamixer and got
rid of it, when using envy24control or mudita24.

Regards,
Ralf

--
pacman -Q linux{,-rt{-cornflower,-pussytoes,-securityink,}}|cut -d\  -f2
5.0.5.arch1-1
5.0.5_rt3-0
5.0.3_rt1-0
4.19.31_rt18-0
4.19.23_rt13-0.1
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Re: Full-featured mixers

Ralf Mardorf
In reply to this post by Tim-2
On Sun, 2019-03-31 at 04:41 -0400, Tim wrote:
> ice1712

PS:

You are aware that this is an Envy24 card?

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Re: Full-featured mixers

David Nielson-2
In reply to this post by Ralf Mardorf
On Sun, 2019-03-31 at 11:45 +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
>
> Running the ncurses user interface alsamixer in ROXTerm, or your
> terminal emu GUI of choice, is nearly the same as using a GUI. I suspect
> for most of us it doesn't make a big difference.

I can't put Ardour in a Tmux session, and in my house, it would be really handy if I could.
We're getting by with an oversized, centralized mixer and audio cables strung hither and
thither until I can get all the audio going over the network. I'm getting very close now.

:)

David

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Re: Full-featured mixers

Robin Gareus
On 3/31/19 3:46 PM, David Nielson wrote:
> I can't put Ardour in a Tmux session, and in my house, it would be really handy if I could.

Yes, you can :) There is a headless version of Ardour that can be
remote-controlled (e.g. via OSC) and also an interactive commandline
version that evaluates Lua.

It'd probably be overkill though.

> We're getting by with an oversized, centralized mixer and audio cables strung hither and
> thither until I can get all the audio going over the network. I'm getting very close now.

That reminds me of

https://discourse.ardour.org/t/route-all-system-inputs-to-all-system-outputs-osc-controlled-fader-for-each-connection/99995

An alternative (LV2 and OSC controllable jack-app) might be
https://github.com/x42/matrixmixer.lv2  -- it's not a mixer in the
classical sense with stereo-pairs and balance controls though.

Cheers!
robin
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Re: Full-featured mixers

Tim-2
In reply to this post by Ralf Mardorf


On 3/31/19 5:58 AM, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
> On Sun, 2019-03-31 at 04:41 -0400, Tim wrote:
>> ice1712
>
> PS:
>
> You are aware that this is an Envy24 card?

Sorry for the re-title. Faux pas.
I should refrain from blurry-eyed from 4AM posts.
I wasn't sure if I should start a new thread on LAU since
  it was kind of related.

Yes there is the envy24 mixer and Mudita24 (which I helped with).
QasMixer does a good job of showing everything except the meters
  that the other two mixers have.
I seem to recall that the meters are actually ALSA components.
Maybe they could be added to QasMixer.

Tim.
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Re: Full-featured mixers

John Rigg
In reply to this post by Tim-2
On Sun, Mar 31, 2019 at 04:41:12AM -0400, Tim wrote:
> Hey guys! I just spent two hours researching mixers.
> What a lousy state of affairs.

Have you tried non-mixer? It's been working well for me
for the last five years or so. If I need hardware mixing
I use envy24control or hdspmixer.

A question: since Jack works with several audio backends, not
just alsa, are alsa mixers like alsamixer, envy24control and
hdspmixer actually relevant for discussion here?

John
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Re: Full-featured mixers

Tobias Hoffmann-6
In reply to this post by Tim-2
On 31/03/19 17:50, Tim wrote:
> Yes there is the envy24 mixer and Mudita24 (which I helped with).
> QasMixer does a good job of showing everything except the meters
>  that the other two mixers have.
> I seem to recall that the meters are actually ALSA components.
> Maybe they could be added to QasMixer.

I'm also using QasMixer, it seems to be one of only a few sane choices
with apart from the text-mode alsamixer...

When I (re-)wrote the Focusrite Scarlett mixer driver (which has to
expose a full 18x8 matrix; the original driver was done by Robin) to
extend it to more devices, I also thought about the available metering
information... but:
1) No mixer app seemed to actually support the alsa metering
controls/components, so I would not be able to test it.
2) Unlike the gain controls, the soundcard exposes the metering data in
blocks, so one block would contain the new data for (IIRC) *all* the
matrix inputs, and another block would contain it for all the master
outputs, and there was a third block - whereas the alsa controls expose
the data *per channel*... this means extra work in the driver to split
them (which also feels kind of wrong to me, from an api standpoint) ...
or go the route some other devices went (IIRC envy24 mixer), and provide
the data via the so called hw-dependent alsa api, which then
necessitates a hw-dependent mixer app (i.e. is able to handle that
specific hw-dep type).

Together with the rather spare documentation on the hw-dep stuff, that's
when I decided not to pursue that feature any further...

   Tobias

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Re: Full-featured mixers

Tim-2
In reply to this post by Tim-2
OK sorry folks, didn't mean to clog up an already long thread.

I moved the topic to LAU now.

T.
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