[Jack-Devel] Midi out no longer showing up in patch bay

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[Jack-Devel] Midi out no longer showing up in patch bay

lowkeyoutlaw
Hello! OK, previously I had Akai MPC 2.0 Jacked to Harrison Mixbus and it
worked perfectly. I had to format my HDD & reinstall Windows , and I set
everything up exactly the same, yet Jack cannot see the MPC's midi out now.
I use W10 Pro x64, 8gb ram. Audio connections are working perfectly. Mixbus
can see the MPC's midi out, but Jack cannot. MPC midi out is handled by a
separate application called midimon.exe and is normally seen as
"AkaiProInternalMidi." In both the connections section and the patchbay,
it's as if it doesn't exist. I tried installing it as admin, and running it
as admin too, no change. Is there a way to force Jack to see it? MPC has a
crippled mixer, Jacking it to Mixbus is a crucial part of my workflow.
Please help! Thank you.



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Re: Midi out no longer showing up in patch bay

Chris Caudle
On Thu, February 8, 2018 9:36 am, lowkeyoutlaw wrote:
> .... Mixbus can see the MPC's midi out, but Jack cannot.
> ...Jacking it to Mixbus is a crucial part of my workflow.

If you are not connecting other applications, why not just use Mixbus
directly without jack?  Ardour/Mixbus includes the equivalent of jack for
internal connections, so  if you are not also connecting additional
applications together you can just use the internal routing.

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Re: Midi out no longer showing up in patch bay

lowkeyoutlaw
Mpc is a stand alone application. There is no way to route audio and midi
from it to any other application without something like VAC or Jack. Mixbus'
routing doesn't see the MPC audio outs at all on its own.



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Re: Midi out no longer showing up in patch bay

Chris Caudle
In reply to this post by Chris Caudle
On Thu, February 8, 2018 11:12 am, lowkeyoutlaw wrote:
> Mpc is a stand alone application. There is no way to route
> audio and midi from it to any other application without
> something like VAC or Jack.
> Mixbus' routing doesn't see the MPC audio outs at all on its own.

Then I don't understand what you wrote previously:
"Mixbus can see the MPC's midi out, but Jack cannot."

You did not show how you started jackd, are you using the -X winmme
argument to start the MIDI driver?

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Re: Midi out no longer showing up in patch bay

lowkeyoutlaw
Yes I start it with -x winme. Jack can see/add a midi connection from Mixbus,
just no longer MPC. As I said I had it working perfectly before the format.
As for the other part, sorry, it is confusing, and hard to explain. Mixbus
can see the midi out from MPC, with or without Jack running. Connecting to
it doesn't do anything without a corresponding midi connection from MPC to
Mixbus in Jack, which is no longer possible because Jack doesn't see the MPC
midi out anymore, after the format.
Audio is good to go - once I set up connections in Jack (and only then),
Mixbus can see and connect to the MPC audio outs no problem.
I even tried the patchbay preset I created and saved when it was working.
When it loads up, the MPC midi out is missing.
I know the MPC midi out is working, because Jack is the only app that
doesn't see it. Again, this was working before. I'm sure I just accidentally
missed or changed something this time, though I don't know what. As far as I
know I set it up exactly the same. Very confusing.
For the sake of clarity, my problem is, after a format and reinstall, Jack
no longer sees the MPC midi out, as if it didn't exist.
I'm sorry. I'm horrible at explaining things.




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Re: Midi out no longer showing up in patch bay

lowkeyoutlaw
Could there be something I'm doing or not doing that is preventing Jack from
seeing the MPC midi out?



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Re: Midi out no longer showing up in patch bay

Chris Caudle
On Thu, February 8, 2018 12:29 pm, lowkeyoutlaw wrote:
> Could there be something I'm doing or not doing that is preventing Jack
> from seeing the MPC midi out?

Are you starting jack before starting Mixbus?  I'm not sure if Windows
allows sharing MIDI devices or not, if you start Mixbus first maybe it
attempts to take control of the MPC and doesn't allow jack to use it.

I'm still a little confused about the MPC showing up in Mixbus, but not
being usable without making a connection in jack.  Part of the confusion
is probably my lack of experience with jack on Windows, I use jack on
Linux, the behavior is a little different there because of the difference
in the audio driver behavior.

Are you starting jack from a command shell or from some graphical tool?
If you start from a command shell you could copy and paste the exact
command you use to start jackd.exe and then the text printed by jackd as
it starts, that would help determine what devices jackd actually detects
and uses.

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Re: Midi out no longer showing up in patch bay

lowkeyoutlaw
I start the Jack Router first, then the Jack Control Panel, then MPC, then
Mixbus. It is the graphical tool, not sure what it's called. It appears to
be the same interface whether I use the 32 or or 64 bit version. Same result
on both. When I can get down there maybe I can copy and paste the info.
Thank you for your help.



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Re: Midi out no longer showing up in patch bay

lowkeyoutlaw
I got it to work. I put  -x winme at the beginning of the Jack Port Audio
shortcut properties (instead of the end), and in both the prefix and suffix
areas in the control panel. Not sure which did it, but after a restart, the
mpc showed up as "system midi." Then all worked as expected. Weird. Sorry
for the head cramps. Thanks for trying to help.



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Re: Midi out no longer showing up in patch bay

Chris Caudle
On Thu, February 8, 2018 3:08 pm, lowkeyoutlaw wrote:
> I got it to work. I put  -x winme at the beginning of the Jack Port Audio
> shortcut properties (instead of the end)

Likely  you changed slightly the order you put the command line arguments
into the shortcut compared to your old installation.
It is a little more obvious if you look through the documentation a few
times, but essentially the way that jackd starts up involves parsing the
command line arguments into arguments for jackd, and sub-arguments that
modify the top level arguments.
So for example -X winmme means use the Windows MME driver for MIDI, -d
portaudio means use the portaudio library as the driver interface, but
arguments after "-d portaudio" usually mean more specific driver settings,
so this:
jackd -X winmme -d portaudio
means use winmme MIDI driver, use portaudio for the audio driver interface
but this:
jackd -d portaudio -X winmme
could be interpreted as use portaudio for the audio driver interface, pass
"-X winmme" to the portaudio driver as additional settings.

If you had started jackd from a command shell and looked at the messages
printed it would likely have printed something like "no -X parameter
recognized, portaudio driver ignoring" or something along those lines.
It isn't a very intuitive way to do things on Windows, but on linux and OS
X where jack was originally developed after the -d portion is where you
would put the specific settings for the audio driver, like whether it
should use 44100 or 48000 as the sample rate, how many channels to use if
you hardware supports more than two channels, etc.

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Re: Midi out no longer showing up in patch bay

lowkeyoutlaw
I must admit, I was a little confused about Mixbus' built-in Jack ability. I
have since figured out that I don't have to run the Jack Control Panel at
all, or bother with fiddly Patchbay profiles. As long as I run Jack
PortAudio with -X winmme -R -S -d portaudio -d "ASIO::FL Studio ASIO" (where
FL Studio ASIO is my ASIO driver) in properties\target, I'm golden. No more
arguing with the patchbay when project settings differed from the Patchbay
profile. Seems I was making it way harder than it needed to be. I can just
set up the routing in Mixbus and it's good to go. As soon as I select
JackRouter in MPC, it's already setup perfectly there.
Thank you again for your time. Maybe someone else can benefit from this
info. It's actually not very hard to route to Mixbus from another DAW. The
one thing that was confusing though, is on the Windows instruction page,
there is a place where it shows a command line that includes the version
number of Jack. This would not work. All I had to do was remove the version
number from the command line, and viola!



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