[Jack-Devel] Status of the jackaudio.org homepage and releases (good news)

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[Jack-Devel] Status of the jackaudio.org homepage and releases (good news)

Markus Seeber
Hello again,

as elaborated in my previous mail (bad news) the jackaudio.org page is
kind of in trouble.

Before these problems can be resolved, there are a few things that have
to be made clear:

1  Who has currently access to the webspace hosting jackaudio.org? I
know Paul has, I think Stéphane has and somewhere in the back of my head
a voice tells me the Filipe might have access?

2  What I know is, that whoever has access to the webspace of
jackaudio.org has not been monitoring the jack-devel list for my pull
requests. I asked Paul directly and it was done, but I think that should
not be required all the time, so here are some proposals:

2.1  Allow me to access the webspace and do the updates myself. I do not
need a real shell, some kind of file system access should be sufficient.

Pro:
* technically easy, depending on how it's done
* simplifies communication for me (no need to send pull requests to the
List)
* will result in fast updates in the future
* adds no more dependecy on GitHub services
Con:
* trust/security/legal concerns
* shifts more responsibility on me, reduces control for the webspace owner
* still fails in case I am not available

2.2  Set up continuous integration process
GitHub offers an API for interacting with external services in case a
repository is updated. This could be used to deploy changes in the
jackaudio.org repository automatically to the webspace. I would need to
look up how this could work in detail and if there are additional costs
involved. Maybe it can be done in the same way as the ardour.org
homepage is set up?

Pro:
* removes more need for manual intervention in the long run
* no need to authorize additional users to access the webspace
* keeps working even if the maintainers of the website changes
Con:
* requires an external or internal service to be authorized to access
the webspace
* requires some amount of initial setup and testing
* adds a dependecy on GitHub services
* needs documentation and maintenance cost might be to high

2.3  Remove the webspace from the chain completely.
The page will then be hosted only on GitHub pages under the
jackaudio.org domain.

Pro:
* simplifies deployment considerably
* Deployment does not depend on multiple people anymore: faster, less
work hours wasted
* Deployment of updates will be much faster
* more features of the GitHub Pages service can be used, like fetching
repository metadata, hosting of binaries, etc...
* Adding/removing maintainers is easy and handled through access to the
GitHub repository
Con:
* Makes the page dependant on GitHub, if GitHub goes down or evil, so
will the page. Still, it will be possible to host the static page on any
webspace when that happens and just change the domain record.
* Domain owner has less control over the page content.
* Needs some setup by the domain owner, I remember there have been
concerns about the records for mail adresses and the jack mailing lists.
(not entirely sure since the lists seem to sit on a subdomain, this
probably also entails security concerns...)

2.4  Migrate to something completely unrelated. aka Your suggestions?

3  hosting of binaries
This needs input by those who manage the releases of jack1 and jack2
since it is tied into the release process.

What users usually expect is the following ordered by importance
(subjective):
a) one official location for downloads
b) a predictable and consistent naming convention for files and archives
and the contents (especially for packaging)
c) predictable and consistent URLs for all versions and
variants(especially for packaging)
d) complete source tarballs
e) patchnotes
f) additional mirrors
g) checksums
h) release announcement

b, d, e, g, and h are usually provided by the ones responsible for the
releases, the rest depends on which approach was chosen in section 2.
If the webspace is used, I strongly suggest to use it also for the
binries and in case I get access I can offer to put the binaries there
for you in the right place. Otherwise there is the opportunity to create
tags on your GitHub repositories and attach the files there, which is
also a nice place to put checksums, patchnotes and other version
information and also provides automatically a source archive of the
tagged commit.

I will not add the binaries into the repository of the webpage and git
LFS does not sound especially compelling to me too since it requires,
surprise, external hosting of the files anyway and in that case, there
is almost no gain over just using the webspace or the GitHub releases
features.

Dear Paul, dear Stéphane, dear Filipe,
maybe talk to each other on the LAC about it and come to a conclusion,
because I am at a loss here and can not go any further without your
intervention. It's not the end of the world, but it kind of keeps
bugging me and the users.

best regards
Markus
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Re: Status of the jackaudio.org homepage and releases (good news)

Filipe Coelho
Replying from phone, sorry for top posting... (in the airport now).

When i took over as maintainer of jack1, I specifically mentioned not wanting to take care of the website.
Tbh i dont know who has access, and I dont think i do.
I did not took over jack2 though, so my own changes there always go through sletz.

LAC is here, its the perfect oportunity to talk about this.

@Markus I would be very happy if you took care of the website part of the jack project :)

On May 17, 2017 09:58, "Markus Seeber" <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hello again,

as elaborated in my previous mail (bad news) the jackaudio.org page is
kind of in trouble.

Before these problems can be resolved, there are a few things that have
to be made clear:

1  Who has currently access to the webspace hosting jackaudio.org? I
know Paul has, I think Stéphane has and somewhere in the back of my head
a voice tells me the Filipe might have access?

2  What I know is, that whoever has access to the webspace of
jackaudio.org has not been monitoring the jack-devel list for my pull
requests. I asked Paul directly and it was done, but I think that should
not be required all the time, so here are some proposals:

2.1  Allow me to access the webspace and do the updates myself. I do not
need a real shell, some kind of file system access should be sufficient.

Pro:
* technically easy, depending on how it's done
* simplifies communication for me (no need to send pull requests to the
List)
* will result in fast updates in the future
* adds no more dependecy on GitHub services
Con:
* trust/security/legal concerns
* shifts more responsibility on me, reduces control for the webspace owner
* still fails in case I am not available

2.2  Set up continuous integration process
GitHub offers an API for interacting with external services in case a
repository is updated. This could be used to deploy changes in the
jackaudio.org repository automatically to the webspace. I would need to
look up how this could work in detail and if there are additional costs
involved. Maybe it can be done in the same way as the ardour.org
homepage is set up?

Pro:
* removes more need for manual intervention in the long run
* no need to authorize additional users to access the webspace
* keeps working even if the maintainers of the website changes
Con:
* requires an external or internal service to be authorized to access
the webspace
* requires some amount of initial setup and testing
* adds a dependecy on GitHub services
* needs documentation and maintenance cost might be to high

2.3  Remove the webspace from the chain completely.
The page will then be hosted only on GitHub pages under the
jackaudio.org domain.

Pro:
* simplifies deployment considerably
* Deployment does not depend on multiple people anymore: faster, less
work hours wasted
* Deployment of updates will be much faster
* more features of the GitHub Pages service can be used, like fetching
repository metadata, hosting of binaries, etc...
* Adding/removing maintainers is easy and handled through access to the
GitHub repository
Con:
* Makes the page dependant on GitHub, if GitHub goes down or evil, so
will the page. Still, it will be possible to host the static page on any
webspace when that happens and just change the domain record.
* Domain owner has less control over the page content.
* Needs some setup by the domain owner, I remember there have been
concerns about the records for mail adresses and the jack mailing lists.
(not entirely sure since the lists seem to sit on a subdomain, this
probably also entails security concerns...)

2.4  Migrate to something completely unrelated. aka Your suggestions?

3  hosting of binaries
This needs input by those who manage the releases of jack1 and jack2
since it is tied into the release process.

What users usually expect is the following ordered by importance
(subjective):
a) one official location for downloads
b) a predictable and consistent naming convention for files and archives
and the contents (especially for packaging)
c) predictable and consistent URLs for all versions and
variants(especially for packaging)
d) complete source tarballs
e) patchnotes
f) additional mirrors
g) checksums
h) release announcement

b, d, e, g, and h are usually provided by the ones responsible for the
releases, the rest depends on which approach was chosen in section 2.
If the webspace is used, I strongly suggest to use it also for the
binries and in case I get access I can offer to put the binaries there
for you in the right place. Otherwise there is the opportunity to create
tags on your GitHub repositories and attach the files there, which is
also a nice place to put checksums, patchnotes and other version
information and also provides automatically a source archive of the
tagged commit.

I will not add the binaries into the repository of the webpage and git
LFS does not sound especially compelling to me too since it requires,
surprise, external hosting of the files anyway and in that case, there
is almost no gain over just using the webspace or the GitHub releases
features.

Dear Paul, dear Stéphane, dear Filipe,
maybe talk to each other on the LAC about it and come to a conclusion,
because I am at a loss here and can not go any further without your
intervention. It's not the end of the world, but it kind of keeps
bugging me and the users.

best regards
Markus

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Re: Status of the jackaudio.org homepage and releases (good news)

Markus Seeber
On 05/17/2017 12:12 PM, Filipe Lopes wrote:
> Replying from phone, sorry for top posting... (in the airport now).
>
> When i took over as maintainer of jack1, I specifically mentioned not
> wanting to take care of the website.
> Tbh i dont know who has access, and I dont think i do.
> I did not took over jack2 though, so my own changes there always go through
> sletz.
>
> LAC is here, its the perfect oportunity to talk about this.
Yes, please! I am sadly not able to attend physically but you three will
be there, and I think IOHannes wanted to chime in too?
> @Markus I would be very happy if you took care of the website part of the
> jack project :)
That's fine by me. I'd like to get these points resolved though, so I
can get the work done.

best regards
Markus
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[Jack-Devel] Using Jack in 10.10 and later?

Michael
So has anyone gotten Jack to work as a default device in 10.10 or later?

To repost, to make Jack work as an audio device for almost everything in 10.9.5 (and sadly, I can only say almost everything), I had to put this in /System/Library/Sandbox/Profiles/system.sb (goes at the end)

;;; local additions for Jack
  (allow network*
         (regex #"/private/tmp/jack_.*"))
  (allow file-write*
         (regex #"/private/tmp/jack_.*"))
  (allow mach-lookup
         (global-name-regex "jack_mach_sem.*"))
  (allow ipc-sysv-sem)
  (allow ipc-posix-shm-read*
         (ipc-posix-name-regex "/jack-.*"))
  (allow ipc-posix-shm-write*
         (ipc-posix-name-regex "/jack-.*"))
  (allow file-read*
         (regex #"/Library/Audio/Plug-Ins/Components/JACK-insert.component.*"))

Additionally, after logging in, and starting up Jack, I have to kill coreaudiod (for some reason, Jack has to be running for this to start up with Jack support), and then kill and restart Jack itself (otherwise it can't seem to register itself with the active coreaudiod).

From what I understand of the 10.10 security system, editing that file needs to be in single user mode, not even as root in normal mode.

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Re: Using Jack in 10.10 and later?

Josh Junon
I was writing a project called CaptainJack that used macOS's new HAL audio subsystem to do just this.

The problem is that the service that runs that is supposed to talk to JACK has to run under a particular user, which is never the user that's running the JACK daemon. JACK doesn't support multi-user setups, and the developers refuse to make this an out of the box thing to support (https://github.com/jackaudio/jack1/issues/52). Because of that, I discontinued development on CaptainJack.

If they change their minds, I'll happily finish CaptainJack as I find a use-case for it almost every week.

On Fri, May 19, 2017 at 1:42 PM Michael <[hidden email]> wrote:
So has anyone gotten Jack to work as a default device in 10.10 or later?

To repost, to make Jack work as an audio device for almost everything in 10.9.5 (and sadly, I can only say almost everything), I had to put this in /System/Library/Sandbox/Profiles/system.sb (goes at the end)

;;; local additions for Jack
  (allow network*
         (regex #"/private/tmp/jack_.*"))
  (allow file-write*
         (regex #"/private/tmp/jack_.*"))
  (allow mach-lookup
         (global-name-regex "jack_mach_sem.*"))
  (allow ipc-sysv-sem)
  (allow ipc-posix-shm-read*
         (ipc-posix-name-regex "/jack-.*"))
  (allow ipc-posix-shm-write*
         (ipc-posix-name-regex "/jack-.*"))
  (allow file-read*
         (regex #"/Library/Audio/Plug-Ins/Components/JACK-insert.component.*"))

Additionally, after logging in, and starting up Jack, I have to kill coreaudiod (for some reason, Jack has to be running for this to start up with Jack support), and then kill and restart Jack itself (otherwise it can't seem to register itself with the active coreaudiod).

From what I understand of the 10.10 security system, editing that file needs to be in single user mode, not even as root in normal mode.

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Re: Status of the jackaudio.org homepage and releases (good news)

IOhannes m zmölnig
In reply to this post by Markus Seeber
On 05/17/2017 10:51 AM, Markus Seeber wrote:
> Dear Paul, dear Stéphane, dear Filipe,
> maybe talk to each other on the LAC about it and come to a conclusion,

omg.
now that i am back from LAC2017, i realized that i completely forgot
about that issue.
i wonder whether anybody else brought it up at some hallway track that i
missed...

gfmsdr
IOhannes


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Re: Status of the jackaudio.org homepage and releases (good news)

Filipe Coelho
On 22.05.2017 15:46, IOhannes m zmölnig wrote:
> On 05/17/2017 10:51 AM, Markus Seeber wrote:
>> Dear Paul, dear Stéphane, dear Filipe,
>> maybe talk to each other on the LAC about it and come to a conclusion,
> omg.
> now that i am back from LAC2017, i realized that i completely forgot
> about that issue.
> i wonder whether anybody else brought it up at some hallway track that i
> missed...

I spoke with Paul about this.
He will try to get github hooks working with the current hosting+server
to do automatic updates once someone pushes to github.
If that doesn't work, we'll sort out something. Likely me doing manual
updates from time to time.

Also you can expect a new JACK2 release in the next few days ;)

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Re: Status of the jackaudio.org homepage and releases (good news)

Michael

On 2017-05-22, at 7:08 AM, Filipe Coelho <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Also you can expect a new JACK2 release in the next few days ;)
>

Will that include any improved support (any support) for Mac OS after 10.10?


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Re: Status of the jackaudio.org homepage and releases (good news)

David Kastrup
Michael <[hidden email]> writes:

> On 2017-05-22, at 7:08 AM, Filipe Coelho <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Also you can expect a new JACK2 release in the next few days ;)
>>
>
> Will that include any improved support (any support) for Mac OS after 10.10?

Also, on my computer the 32-bit Jackd seems unhappy with a 64-bit kernel
when using raw Alsa Midi emulation:

dak@lola:~$ file /usr/bin/jackd
/usr/bin/jackd: ELF 32-bit LSB executable, Intel 80386, version 1 (SYSV), dynamically linked, interpreter /lib/ld-linux.so.2, for GNU/Linux 2.6.32, BuildID[sha1]=4923663f6c7d285cd54c6f774e32c677dfd47cd5, stripped
dak@lola:~$ cat /proc/version
Linux version 4.10.0-20-lowlatency (buildd@lcy01-05) (gcc version 6.3.0 20170406 (Ubuntu 6.3.0-12ubuntu2) ) #22-Ubuntu SMP PREEMPT Thu Apr 20 10:18:38 UTC 2017

dak@lola:~$ jackd -d alsa -X raw
jackdmp 1.9.11
Copyright 2001-2005 Paul Davis and others.
Copyright 2004-2014 Grame.
jackdmp comes with ABSOLUTELY NO WARRANTY
This is free software, and you are welcome to redistribute it
under certain conditions; see the file COPYING for details
no message buffer overruns
no message buffer overruns
no message buffer overruns
JACK server starting in realtime mode with priority 10
self-connect-mode is "Don't restrict self connect requests"
audio_reservation_init
Acquire audio card Audio0
creating alsa driver ... hw:0|hw:0|1024|2|48000|0|0|nomon|swmeter|-|32bit
configuring for 48000Hz, period = 1024 frames (21.3 ms), buffer = 2 periods
ALSA: final selected sample format for capture: 32bit integer little-endian
ALSA: use 2 periods for capture
ALSA: final selected sample format for playback: 32bit integer little-endian
ALSA: use 2 periods for playback
scan: added port hw:1,0,0 in-hw-1-0-0-TASCAM-US-122L-MIDI-1
scan: added port hw:1,0,0 out-hw-1-0-0-TASCAM-US-122L-MIDI-1
ALSA lib rawmidi_hw.c:100:(snd_rawmidi_hw_params) SNDRV_RAWMIDI_IOCTL_PARAMS failed: Invalid argument
jackd: rawmidi.c:268: snd_rawmidi_open_conf: Assertion `err >= 0' failed.
Aborted (core dumped)

Note that the crash requires an actual raw midi device to be available
for remapping.

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Re: Status of the jackaudio.org homepage and releases (good news)

Filipe Coelho
In reply to this post by Michael
On 23.05.2017 03:44, Michael wrote:
> On 2017-05-22, at 7:08 AM, Filipe Coelho <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Also you can expect a new JACK2 release in the next few days ;)
>>
> Will that include any improved support (any support) for Mac OS after 10.10?

No, the next release will not have macOS or Windows binaries, at least
not yet.
I'll have to see if I can build them.
Focus will be on the Linux versions.

If you have suggestions on how to fix things, I'm all ears.

Also, report bugs against the bug tracker, not on the mailing list.
Thanks.

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Re: mismatching 32/64 bit makes raw Alsa Midi emulation unhappy

David Nielson-2
In reply to this post by David Kastrup
On Tue, 2017-05-23 at 09:37 +0200, David Kastrup wrote:
>
> Also, on my computer the 32-bit Jackd seems unhappy with a 64-bit
> kernel
> when using raw Alsa Midi emulation:
>

For God's sake, if you're going to change subjects, change subject
lines.

Why are you running a 32-bit jackd with a 64-bit kernel, and why would
you expect it to work?

naptastic
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Re: mismatching 32/64 bit makes raw Alsa Midi emulation unhappy

David Kastrup
David Nielson <[hidden email]> writes:

> On Tue, 2017-05-23 at 09:37 +0200, David Kastrup wrote:
>>
>> Also, on my computer the 32-bit Jackd seems unhappy with a 64-bit
>> kernel
>> when using raw Alsa Midi emulation:
>>
>
> For God's sake, if you're going to change subjects, change subject
> lines.
>
> Why are you running a 32-bit jackd with a 64-bit kernel, and why would
> you expect it to work?

Why wouldn't I expect it to work?  Everything else works.  Without
running a 64-bit kernel I would not be able to occasionally compile,
test and debug 64-bit executables on a 32-bit system.  Well, I'd be able
to compile them.  But to test/debug stuff, you need a kernel that will
save/restore all of the 64-bit state.

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Re: Status of the jackaudio.org homepage and releases (good news)

Michael
In reply to this post by Filipe Coelho

On 2017-05-23, at 1:39 AM, Filipe Coelho <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 23.05.2017 03:44, Michael wrote:
>> On 2017-05-22, at 7:08 AM, Filipe Coelho <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> Also you can expect a new JACK2 release in the next few days ;)
>>>
>> Will that include any improved support (any support) for Mac OS after 10.10?
>
> No, the next release will not have macOS or Windows binaries, at least not yet.
> I'll have to see if I can build them.
> Focus will be on the Linux versions.
>
> If you have suggestions on how to fix things, I'm all ears.
>
> Also, report bugs against the bug tracker, not on the mailing list.
> Thanks.

Sure.
1. Where is the bug tracker?
2. Did you see my previous "How to fix the sandbox for 95% of programs in 10.9.5" that I posted earlier? I have no idea if that behavior will work in 10.10+, as (I understand) the whole audio system changed.

>
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Re: Status of the jackaudio.org homepage and releases (good news)

Jörn Nettingsmeier-5
In reply to this post by Michael
On 05/23/2017 03:44 AM, Michael wrote:
>
> On 2017-05-22, at 7:08 AM, Filipe Coelho <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Also you can expect a new JACK2 release in the next few days ;)
>>
>
> Will that include any improved support (any support) for Mac OS after 10.10?

I run it on Sierra without any problems, but it's a beta release that
isn't linked to on the jack page yet IIRC. Just google it, it was in
some forum post by sletz.


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Re: Status of the jackaudio.org homepage and releases (good news)

Michael

On 2017-05-26, at 1:49 AM, Jörn Nettingsmeier <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 05/23/2017 03:44 AM, Michael wrote:
>> On 2017-05-22, at 7:08 AM, Filipe Coelho <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> Also you can expect a new JACK2 release in the next few days ;)
>>>
>> Will that include any improved support (any support) for Mac OS after 10.10?
>
> I run it on Sierra without any problems, but it's a beta release that isn't linked to on the jack page yet IIRC. Just google it, it was in some forum post by sletz.

And it works with ordinary programs, that have no idea about changing output audio device?

... Upgrading has gone from "non starter" to "what else has been ruined for power users?"


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Re: Status of the jackaudio.org homepage and releases (good news)

IOhannes m zmölnig
In reply to this post by Filipe Coelho
On 05/22/2017 04:08 PM, Filipe Coelho wrote:
>>
>
> I spoke with Paul about this.
> He will try to get github hooks working with the current hosting+server
> to do automatic updates once someone pushes to github.
> If that doesn't work, we'll sort out something. Likely me doing manual
> updates from time to time.

what's the current state?

afaict, the two sites (jackaudio.org and jackaudio.github.io) are now
synched, but some of the links still point to expired dropbox assets.

gfmdsar
IOhannes


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