Question of Jack Setup

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Question of Jack Setup

chris-88
Hello,
        I'm very new to the Jack audio system and have a few simple  
questions about what I think would be it's perfect application to an  
audio problem I'm having.
        I work for the KDVS radio station in Sacramento, which does  
terrestrial broadcasts as well as Internet broadcasts, and we have an  
analog audio line out coming off our main broadcast board into a 160  
MHz computer, which is connected via a 10Mb/s connection to a much  
faster, brand new Dell PowerEdge server, which has a much bigger  
connection to the Internet to do our MP3,Vorbis,and Real streams.
        My problem however, is trying to get the audio line in from the slow  
computer, through the 10Mb/s network, up to the much faster PowerEdge  
server's line in. I believe this is what Jack can do, right?
        I guess my question then, if Jack is the right application, is how  
would I go about doing this? Do I need more than just Jack? Do I need  
to use a "third-party" client alongside Jack to do this?
        I really want to take the line in off the slow computer's sound card  
and have it coming out on the PowerEdge as the line in, so that  
applications like Real, which don't support Jack, can just grab the  
line in and encode that.
        I'd appreciate any and all help.

Thanks,
Chris Thielen
KDVS Webmaster

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Re: Question of Jack Setup

Paul Davis
On Wed, 2006-07-05 at 10:48 -0700, Christopher Thielen wrote:

> Hello,
> I'm very new to the Jack audio system and have a few simple  
> questions about what I think would be it's perfect application to an  
> audio problem I'm having.
> I work for the KDVS radio station in Sacramento, which does  
> terrestrial broadcasts as well as Internet broadcasts, and we have an  
> analog audio line out coming off our main broadcast board into a 160  
> MHz computer, which is connected via a 10Mb/s connection to a much  
> faster, brand new Dell PowerEdge server, which has a much bigger  
> connection to the Internet to do our MP3,Vorbis,and Real streams.
> My problem however, is trying to get the audio line in from the slow  
> computer, through the 10Mb/s network, up to the much faster PowerEdge  
> server's line in. I believe this is what Jack can do, right?
> I guess my question then, if Jack is the right application, is how  
> would I go about doing this? Do I need more than just Jack? Do I need  
> to use a "third-party" client alongside Jack to do this?
> I really want to take the line in off the slow computer's sound card  
> and have it coming out on the PowerEdge as the line in, so that  
> applications like Real, which don't support Jack, can just grab the  
> line in and encode that.
> I'd appreciate any and all help.

sounds as if netjack is what you need, but before we get into that, why
is the analog audio signal feeding the slow system at all? what does the
slow system do with it?

--p



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Re: Question of Jack Setup

chris-88
Aah,  my apologies, I missed a vital part of the problem.

KDVS itself, and the analog feed off the main board is in a basement,  
while our server-rack and high-speed Internet connection, as well as  
the computing power to encode the six or so streams we need, is four  
stories above us, and a few rooms over, so we'd need a few hundred  
feet of cable at least, which I did ask for (haha) and was (of  
course) denied, as the radio station only controls a small portion of  
the building.

So I started looking into software solutions. Next to the main board,  
in the basement, is an old server, with visible IP address to the  
Internet, but it does have a 10 Mb/s connection up the four stories  
to kdvs.org, which has both the computing power and Internet  
connection necessary to do our audio streaming.

As of right now, we have an analog radio tuner sitting upstairs,  
tuned to our terrestrial frequency, and that radio's line out runs  
into a SB Live line-in, which is then encoded by Darkice and sent to  
the same localhost for our Icecast streams. Our Real streaming is  
similiar and on the same box.

The audio quality of a terrestrial radio, going through an analog  
audio wire in a server-rack takes in not only the quality loss  
because we're picking up our signal through the air, but the wire  
itself is in a server rack, causing a high-pitched electrical noise  
that is, after investigation, coming from the servers.

So, to get rid of this horrid set up and greatly increase the audio  
quality on our streams, I would like to use a software solution to  
get the line in off the computer in the basement, up through the 10Mb/
s network, to the Dell PowerEdge server sitting on our good Internet  
connection.

Sorry for being confusing, I guess the setup is rather contrived, but  
netjack would provide this functionality?

Thanks again for the help,
Chris Thielen
KDVS Webmaster

On Jul 5, 2006, at 11:00 AM, Paul Davis wrote:

> On Wed, 2006-07-05 at 10:48 -0700, Christopher Thielen wrote:
>> Hello,
>> I'm very new to the Jack audio system and have a few simple
>> questions about what I think would be it's perfect application to an
>> audio problem I'm having.
>> I work for the KDVS radio station in Sacramento, which does
>> terrestrial broadcasts as well as Internet broadcasts, and we have an
>> analog audio line out coming off our main broadcast board into a 160
>> MHz computer, which is connected via a 10Mb/s connection to a much
>> faster, brand new Dell PowerEdge server, which has a much bigger
>> connection to the Internet to do our MP3,Vorbis,and Real streams.
>> My problem however, is trying to get the audio line in from the slow
>> computer, through the 10Mb/s network, up to the much faster PowerEdge
>> server's line in. I believe this is what Jack can do, right?
>> I guess my question then, if Jack is the right application, is how
>> would I go about doing this? Do I need more than just Jack? Do I need
>> to use a "third-party" client alongside Jack to do this?
>> I really want to take the line in off the slow computer's sound card
>> and have it coming out on the PowerEdge as the line in, so that
>> applications like Real, which don't support Jack, can just grab the
>> line in and encode that.
>> I'd appreciate any and all help.
>
> sounds as if netjack is what you need, but before we get into that,  
> why
> is the analog audio signal feeding the slow system at all? what  
> does the
> slow system do with it?
>
> --p
>


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Re: Question of Jack Setup

Paul Davis
On Wed, 2006-07-05 at 11:25 -0700, Christopher Thielen wrote:
> So, to get rid of this horrid set up and greatly increase the audio  
> quality on our streams, I would like to use a software solution to  
> get the line in off the computer in the basement, up through the 10Mb/
> s network, to the Dell PowerEdge server sitting on our good Internet  
> connection.

1) if you deliver a signal via the ethernet, it is never going to arrive
on the analog line in to the dell.

2) is there a reason you cannot run an analog audio cable to the dell?

3) netjack will deliver the audio to the dell, but real will still not
be able to use it *easily*. it can be made to work, but it will require
various hacks. i don't know well it will work - people have made various
real products do playback via JACK with equivalent hacks, but input to
their encoder is a whole different ball of wax. i expect it will work,
but i also expect that a lot of tweaking with parameters will be
necessary.

--p




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Re: Question of Jack Setup

chris-88
Alright, so the plan of action should be something like:

* [slow computer with feed from the board, the original audio source]: start jackd, start jacknet_client -p SLAVEMACHINE

* [on the dell upstairs]

jackd -d net -r MASTER_RATE -p MASTER_PERIOD

and then on the dell start some kinda jack_alsa_out client and set the mixer to take wave out as the recording source.

Right?

- Chris Thielen


On Jul 5, 2006, at 11:58 AM, Paul Davis wrote:

So netjack can take ALSA audio out and broadcast it to another  
computer who can then display that broadcast through its own audio  
out, right?

not quite. netjack on the slow system will send the signal via the
ethernet to the dell. netjack on the dell will pick up the signal and
then a connected "alsa_out" client will feed the data to the ALSA
output. you will have used the SB Live h/w mixer to select  "Wave out"
as the capture source, allowing real to pick up the signal.

note that netjack on the slow system will *probably* need to "own" the
audio interface on that machine - you will have to configure darkice to
encode via JACK, not directly from ALSA.

--p



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Re: Question of Jack Setup

riwright
In reply to this post by Paul Davis


Paul Davis wrote:
On Wed, 2006-07-05 at 11:25 -0700, Christopher Thielen wrote:
  
So, to get rid of this horrid set up and greatly increase the audio  
quality on our streams, I would like to use a software solution to  
get the line in off the computer in the basement, up through the 10Mb/ 
s network, to the Dell PowerEdge server sitting on our good Internet  
connection.
    

1) if you deliver a signal via the ethernet, it is never going to arrive
on the analog line in to the dell.
  
Couldn't you have jack/netjack play the network-streamed signal out of the Dell's analog line out, then use a simple cable to loop that back into the Dell's line in, where other software could grab it?

Rick

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