jack issue

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jack issue

Stephane Thomas-3
Hello everybody,

I'm a jack user who is experiencing a strange problem on his new computer.
I hope I'm not disturbing you with this user related issue, maybe I'd
rather submit a bug but I'm not sure it is relevant to do so.

I'm using debian unstable on a double core amd64. jack version is 0.109.2.
I'm using the onboard audio chipset Realtek ALC888. Using ALSA directly
works fine.

jackd starts with no error messages. I have no xruns but the sound is
sizzling.

I've been advice the most common explanation for this dysfonctionment is a
bitrate mismatch between the jack server and its clients. But I tried
different bitrates and the sound is still sizzling (except the sizzling
noise is a little different). At 96000Hz, the sound is first sizzling,
then after a while the sound is quite good but with still a crackling
noise...)

I tried two different clients (zynaddsubfx & xmms), I tried with and
without realtime, I tested many settings combinations (with low and high
latencies). I also tried with /tmp/jack on a tmpfs. The problem is still
the same.

My kernel is the 2.6.24 kernel image for amd64 that comes from the debian
unstable repository. jackd also is the binary package available in
unstable (0.109.2-1).

I wonder if :

Someone else gets the same bug ?

Can this bug be related to the (poor) audio device I'm using ? In this
case, why the sound I get using alsa directly is ok ?

I found some old threads about a special branch of the svn to be used for
multi-core processors, is this still relevant nowadays ?

I know I can use some other distro for which jack is more stable (I
suppose jack can be easily broken in Debian unstable...),
jack works fine with the lastest ubuntu (and on another computer...) (jack
version is 0.103.0 in ubuntu) but I really wants to make it works (or at
least understand why it shouldn't work).

Regards,


Stéphane






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Re: jack issue

Wolfgang Woehl
Sonntag, 3. Februar 2008 [hidden email]:

> I'm using debian unstable on a double core amd64. jack version is
> 0.109.2. I'm using the onboard audio chipset Realtek ALC888. Using
> ALSA directly works fine.
>
> jackd starts with no error messages. I have no xruns but the sound
> is sizzling.

I seem to have the same problem. Although no sizzle here but more of a
constant crackling: alsa fine, jack crackling.

After staring at kernel's
Documentation/sound/alsa/ALSA-Configuration.txt (Section "Module
snd-hda-intel") and trying out all that seemed to make sense and then
all that didn't the "position_fix" parameter made a difference at
last. See "Note 2" in there as well.

When I add "position_fix=3" (FIFO size, _not_ "POSBUF", which
is "auto" actually, or "none") to the sound modules' configuration
(with opensuse this is in /etc/modprobe.d/sound) alsa is crackling
and jack is fine.

>From what I understand position_fix tells alsa how to _really_ find
out the hardware's current buffer position (see
alsa-driver-1.0.16rc2/sound/pci/hda/hda_intel.c).

It'd be great if someone in the know could explain why this makes
(my?) snd-hda-intel crackle/sizzle in either alsa or jack
exclusively.

Wolfgang
------------
ASUSTeK 82801I (ICH9 Family) HD Audio Controller (snd_hda_intel)
alsa-1.0.14-31.2
jack-0.109.2-0.pm.1

/etc/modprobe.d/sound:
alias snd-card-0 snd-hda-intel
options snd-hda-intel enable=1 index=0 position_fix=0


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Re: jack issue

kaneli sanchez
In reply to this post by Stephane Thomas-3
Hi Stéphane,

I had the same problem on my generic intel laptop.

Don't let the module autoprobe the card model as it gets it wrong.
This causes problems whereby 'jackd' works but 'aplay' breaks up etc.

Try and determine your card model by looking at the alsa configuration
document in the linux source:
'Documentation/sound/alsa/ALSA-Configuration.txt'
Under 'Module snd-hda-intel'.

As an example my setup is:
modprobe snd-hda-intel model=laptop position_fix=3

Cheers,

Kaneli.

[hidden email] escribió:
Hello everybody,

I'm a jack user who is experiencing a strange problem on his new computer.
I hope I'm not disturbing you with this user related issue, maybe I'd
rather submit a bug but I'm not sure it is relevant to do so.

I'm using debian unstable on a double core amd64. jack version is 0.109.2.
I'm using the onboard audio chipset Realtek ALC888. Using ALSA directly
works fine.

jackd starts with no error messages. I have no xruns but the sound is
sizzling.

I've been advice the most common explanation for this dysfonctionment is a
bitrate mismatch between the jack server and its clients. But I tried
different bitrates and the sound is still sizzling (except the sizzling
noise is a little different). At 96000Hz, the sound is first sizzling,
then after a while the sound is quite good but with still a crackling
noise...)

I tried two different clients (zynaddsubfx & xmms), I tried with and
without realtime, I tested many settings combinations (with low and high
latencies). I also tried with /tmp/jack on a tmpfs. The problem is still
the same.

My kernel is the 2.6.24 kernel image for amd64 that comes from the debian
unstable repository. jackd also is the binary package available in
unstable (0.109.2-1).

I wonder if :

Someone else gets the same bug ?

Can this bug be related to the (poor) audio device I'm using ? In this
case, why the sound I get using alsa directly is ok ?

I found some old threads about a special branch of the svn to be used for
multi-core processors, is this still relevant nowadays ?

I know I can use some other distro for which jack is more stable (I
suppose jack can be easily broken in Debian unstable...),
jack works fine with the lastest ubuntu (and on another computer...) (jack
version is 0.103.0 in ubuntu) but I really wants to make it works (or at
least understand why it shouldn't work).

Regards,


Stéphane






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Re: ***SPAM*** Re: jack issue

Stephane Thomas-3
On Mon, 4 Feb 2008 18:59:49 +0100 (CET)
kaneli sanchez <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi Stéphane,
>
> I had the same problem on my generic intel laptop.
>
> Don't let the module autoprobe the card model as it gets it wrong.
> This causes problems whereby 'jackd' works but 'aplay' breaks up etc.
>
> Try and determine your card model by looking at the alsa configuration
> document in the linux source:
> 'Documentation/sound/alsa/ALSA-Configuration.txt'
> Under 'Module snd-hda-intel'.
>
> As an example my setup is:
> modprobe snd-hda-intel model=laptop position_fix=3

OK, I think this is a way to explore.

But I ?tried? model=6stack position_fix=1|2|3

?tried? : I mean, does just issuing modprobe snd-hda-intel with the right option, but does it actually modify the way the module works ? Or have I to set it in /etc/modules or whatever, and reboot/reload ALSA, to make it works ?

rmmod snd-hda-intel tells me the module is in use so cannot be unloaded...

My chip is ALC888, I guess my "model" is "6stack" or "6stack-dig".

Once again : I'm not sure just issuing modprobe snd-hda-intel with the right options is enough...

Stef

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Re: jack issue

Wolfgang Woehl
Montag, 4. Februar 2008 Stephane THOMAS:

> ? Or have I to set it in /etc/modules or whatever, and
> reboot/reload ALSA, to make it works ?
>
> rmmod snd-hda-intel tells me the module is in use so cannot be
> unloaded...

If you find a solution (model, position_fix options to the
snd-hda-intel module) you should add it to your modules.conf or
whatever the infrastructure in debian is.

Then restart your sound system. In opensuse it's "rcalsasound restart"
as root. Again I wouldn't know about debian. If the restart (or
a "rmmod" for that matter) fails because the sound device is blocked
you can either find the applications that do this or reboot.

Still, I think the problem at hand is neither samplerate nor "bitrate"
mismatch, as you call it. What Kaneli and I suggest is merely a
workaround for what seems to me a "position_fix mismatch" between
direct alsa use and jack (through alsa) use.

I'd like to learn what could be done to fix this. Anyone?

Wolfgang

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Re: jack issue

Stephane Thomas-3
On Mon, 4 Feb 2008 23:39:21 +0100
Wolfgang Woehl <[hidden email]> wrote:

> > rmmod snd-hda-intel tells me the module is in use so cannot be
> > unloaded...
>
> If you find a solution (model, position_fix options to the
> snd-hda-intel module) you should add it to your modules.conf or
> whatever the infrastructure in debian is.

xfce4 volume control plugin was using the sound device (merci lsof)...

I found position_fix=3 works for the chip I have (ALC888).

I confirm that with this parameter passed to the module, jack works fine. But using ALSA directly produce (? samplerate mismatch).

Thx guys.

Stef

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Re: position_fix issue snd-hda-intel (was jack issue)

Wolfgang Woehl
Donnerstag, 7. Februar 2008 Stephane THOMAS:

> I found position_fix=3 works for the chip I have (ALC888).
>
> I confirm that with this parameter passed to the module, jack works
> fine. But using ALSA directly produce (? samplerate mismatch).

Just to sum it up:

For, at least, our two snd-hda-intel devices (ALC888 and 82801I (ICH9
Family)) both position_fix values (POSBUF and FIFO, 0 and 3
respectively) produce ok sound, only that

position_fix=0 makes alsa fine and jack crackle/sizzle
position_fix=3 makes alsa crackle/sizzle and jack fine

"alsa" meaning direct use of alsa and "jack" meaning (at least in my
case) jack with the alsa backend.

Here I have alsa-1.0.14-31.2 and jack-0.109.2-0.pm.1 (0.pm.1 stems
from the packman repository, I guess)

Wolfgang

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[jackit-devel] position_fix issue / snd-hda-intel / alsa <-> jack (was jack issue)

Wolfgang Woehl
Stephane, here is what Takashi Iwai, alsa-developper, replied on
alsa-devel:

Dienstag, 12. Februar 2008 Takashi Iwai:

> JACK does nothing special but do a very basic full-duplex
> operation. The difference is that you use short period size and
> likely two periods.  So, the position calculation isn't accurate on
> your hardware.  Maybe the positions of playback and capture streams
> differe.  An often used workaround for this kind of problems is to
> use three periods instead.

Takashi, thanks for your explanation. The position_fix=0/jackd problem
occurs with bigger period sizes too, -p[16..1024] -n2. But: With
position_fix=0 and -p[16..512] _-n3_ jackd is fine.

Not that I'd understand why but I'm happy there is a workaround. If
someone knows the how and why of this workaround I'd much appreciate
to learn it.

> (BTW, this problem really depends on the hardware.  That's why
> there are such a strange module option.  So, don't argue this as if
> it's a general problem.)

Like I said, the jack-devel thread was about 2 specific devices and I
promise we won't make a big fuss about it :)

Wolfgang

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