xruns issues and out of clues. Help please? Install log inc...

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xruns issues and out of clues. Help please? Install log inc...

Marc Brevoort
Hello,

Some time ago I've been experiencing xruns and rattle, and tried installing
a
more recent version of jackd. My mistake: I mixed debian and ubuntu and
thoroughly messed up my system.

In my brand new hoary install which I'm focusing on audio and music,
I've kept a log of any and all installation activities that I did on the
new install. Now, after a few weeks of fiddling, RTFMing and tuning,
things are fine for playing an occasional mp3 but a far cry from being
trustable enough for real live music making. Biggest problem are xruns
causing jack applications to drop their connections.

I was hoping someone would take a look at my install log and tell me what
I'm missing, helping me and other people that have similar problems.

Details: I run ubuntu 5.01 hoary with 2.6.10 kernel (recompiled for realtime
capabilities and Athlon optimized, emu10k1 driver built-in) on 2 Ghz athlon,
SB Audigy. Running on 48 kHz exclusively (44.1 gave rattle problems in my
previous install).

I'm longing to get the rock solid audio performance which should be possible
with Linux. Here's my install log (install of mplayer and X.org cut out for
brevity). Other than throwing out the Audigy, what have I missed?

Many, many thanks,
Marc Brevoort

-------------------
I add some library directories to /etc/ld.so.conf:
/usr/lib
/usr/local/lib
Then I run sudo /sbin/ldconfig

I disable all system sounds just in case they interfere with my audio
setup.

I uncomment the universe lines in /etc/apt/sources.list, to allow more
readily available software. I also add

deb http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ hoary multiverse
to the list.

Then I run sudo apt-get update.

sudo apt-get install apt-build
sudo apt-get install build-essential bin86 libncurses-dev
(for make menuconfig of kernel later on)

then I use synaptic to install:
k3b
rosegarden4
jackd (automatically installs with rosegarden-
       Version 0.99.0 tmpdir /dev/shm protocol 13)
rezound
zynaddsubfx
fluidsynth
freqtweak
qsynth

This automatically also installs kdelibs-bin, fftw2, ladcca2, libfluidsynth,
libqt, kdelibs-data, libpcre3, libarts, libopenexr2, menu-xdg
libnetpbm10, netpbm, libflac++4, libmad0, k3blibs, kdebase-bin,
kdelibs4, kdebase-data, kcontrol, k3b, khelpcenter, libfltk, libfox,
liblo0, liblrdf0, libsoundtouch1, qsynth, rezound, rosegarden4,
zynaddsubfx.

I also sudo synaptic and get fftw3 and fftw3-dev (for newer zynaddsubfx -
1.4 just doesnt cut it)

k3b detects my cd burner and suggests installing cdrdao, which i do.
freqtweak looks fine when jackd is running.
I apt-get install alsamixergui, alsa-oss, alsa-headers, alsaplayer-jack,
alsaplayer-gtk and alsaplayer-oss

Rosegarden keeps waiting for the sequencer to come up.
Qsynth mentions "Failed to create the MIDI driver (alsa_seq); no MIDI input
will be available." which probably is the same thing.
amidi --dump works fine though, it is just about the internal sequencer.

lsmod|grep seq gives me
snd_seq_device          8332  2 snd_emu10k1,snd_rawmidi
snd                    50276  13
snd_emu10k1,snd_rawmidi,snd_seq_device,snd_ac97_codec,snd_pcm_oss,snd_mixer_oss,snd_pcm,snd_timer,snd_hwdep
however ls -l /dev/snd/seq gives nothing.
I do a sudo modprobe snd-seq-midi and /dev/snd/seq appears. I add this
to my startup script.

Both rosegarden4 and qsynth now seme to run OK without error messages.
Rosegarden also starts up with audio channels available.

I load a soundfont into qsynth, no sound in rosegarden. Of course,
midi devices are not configured yet.
In Composition/Studio/"Manage MIDI devices", I set MIDI hardware
input device to current. Notes seem to keep 'hanging', as if note
off messages are not sent yet. I solve this by choosing rosegarden
setup and in sequencer/synchronization, I set "send MIDI Clock and
System messages" enabled, as well as setting "sequencer timer" to
system timer (Later on, ocasionally a note still 'hangs').

sudo apt-get install soundtracker (version 0.6.7-4)
sudo apt-get install libgtkmm-2.4-dev
installed: fluid gui interface designer of fltk
installed: libfluidsynth-dev
installed: libfltk-dev
downloaded: libmxml (rpm) - and installed it as follows:
sudo alien --to-deb --install libmxmlplus-0.9.2-0.i386.rpm

I also sudo synaptic and get fftw3 and fftw3-dev.
uninstall mxmlplus (alien generated from rpm), wrong package ;)
install libxml2-dev ubuntu package
download mxml-2.2-1.i386.rpm from easysw.com
installed: sudo alien --install --to-deb mxml-2.2-1.i386.rpm

For now I haven't got the ideal solution, so I install zynaddsubfx 2.2.1
from source. I copy the executable to the bin directory and instrument
banks to /usr/local/share/zynaddsubfx/banks

I also still want to use digital samples at the same time as the virtual
analog synth. I already have chosen for fluidsynth but the GUI of qsynth
does not allow a bank offset like the java based fluidgui does so I prefer
fluidgui. However this means installing Java. I download jdk-1_5_0 from sun.

I add multiverse to the apt repository.
deb http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ hoary multiverse
apt-get install build-essential

I pop in the ubuntu cd and do

sudo apt-get install java-package java-common fakeroot
fakeroot make-jpkg jdk-1_5_0_3-linux-i586.bin
(I now have a package sun-j2sdk1.5_1.5.0+update03_i386.deb)
sudo dpkg -i sun-j2sdk1.5_1.5.0+update03_i386.deb
sudo apt-get install sun-j2sdk1.5

In a similar way I install the java runtime environment (j2re...)

To install fluidgui, i download the .sh installer. This runs now,
but claims it would like ladcca installed. I do this by
apt-get install ladccad

Also installed: jackeq, jack-rack, jacktools (synaptic), qjackctl

All of this is getting me quite a lot of goodies working but I'm still
losing samples. http://jackit.sourceforge.net/docs/faq.php points to
the realtime module.
Using synaptic I install realtime-lsm and realtime-lsm-source

Because I still need to build and install the realtime capabilities in the
kernel, I download the kernel source:

sudo apt-get install build-essential bin86 libncurses-dev
sudo apt-get install linux-tree-2.6.10
sudo cd /usr/src
sudo tar jxf linux-source-2.6.10.tar.bz2
sudo ln -s linux-source-2.6.10 linux

I configure the kernel by doing the following:
1. Getting the old config
# cd /usr/src/linux
# cp /boot/config-2.6.8.1-3-686 .config
# make oldconfig

With make menuconfig i make sure about the following:
- k7 chipset
- soundcard drivers (EMU10k1, ALSA) built-in to kernel
-  CONFIG_MODULES=y
-  CONFIG_SECURITY=y
-  CONFIG_SECURITY_CAPABILITIES=m
-  CONFIG_SECURITY_SELINUX=y
-  IDE drivers built into kernel

make

Copied bzImage to /boot dir, updated menu.lst

built realtime-lsm
make modules_install

After this, I can
modprobe realtime gid=29
(made sure that my user is member of group 29, debian audio group)
which then allows me to run jackd realtime as member of user group 29.
This seems to give pretty stable jack operation as long as I'm not doing
disk-intensive stuff.
I make sure shared memory filesystem is enabled in my fstab by making
sure the following line is there:
shmfs       /dev/shm     shm    defaults        0       0
none /tmp/jack tmpfs defaults 0 0

After this I'm still getting some Xruns. I haven't checked hdparm yet, so
I do and find it is running at 16 bit instead of 32. I fix this by adding
the
following to my startup script:

        hdparm -c1 -u1 -d1 -m16 /dev/hda
        hdparm -c1 -u1 -d1 -m16 /dev/hdb
        hdparm -c1 -u1 -d1 -m16 /dev/hdc
        hdparm -c1 -u1 -d1 -m16 /dev/hdd

After all of this I'm still getting xruns. Any ideas what I'm missing?

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Re: xruns issues and out of clues. Help please? Install log inc...

David Mulcahy
On Thursday 19 May 2005 08:35, Marc Brevoort wrote:
> Hello,
>
> Some time ago I've been experiencing xruns and rattle, and tried installing
> a
> more recent version of jackd. My mistake: I mixed debian and ubuntu and
> thoroughly messed up my system.

> I'm longing to get the rock solid audio performance which should be
> possible with Linux. Here's my install log (install of mplayer and X.org
> cut out for brevity). Other than throwing out the Audigy, what have I
> missed?
>
> Many, many thanks,
> Marc Brevoort
I guess the one question that comes to mind, Is jack being run with realtime
privileges.  This is the default setting in my debian
rosegarden  /usr/bin/jackd -d alsa -d hw -r 44100 -p 2048 -n 2 and this is
the command to run with realtime privileges
jackd -R -d alsa -d hw -r 44100 -p 2048 -n 2

HTH Dave


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Re: xruns issues and out of clues. Help please? Install log inc..

Marc Brevoort
Hi,

First of all thanks a lot for taking the time to help troubleshoot my xruns
problem,
I really appreciate it. I've been on this issue for weeks now and would
really
like to get it over with.

>I guess the one question that comes to mind, Is jack being run with
>realtime
>privileges.  This is the default setting in my debian
>rosegarden  /usr/bin/jackd -d alsa -d hw -r 44100 -p 2048 -n 2 and this is
>the command to run with realtime privileges
>jackd -R -d alsa -d hw -r 44100 -p 2048 -n 2

I was already running realtime (that's what recompiling the kernel was for).

cat /proc/interrupts and lspci -v show that the soundcard is placed in the
most optimal slot it can physically be.

In addition last night I reduced the number of virtual terminals on my
install and
tried upping the buffer size to the maximum (giving a latency of a whopping
170 ms-
such a lag greatly reduces playability of the synth) but even then I'm still
getting
xruns.

Would there be any way to troubleshoot exactly which processes are tying up
the
processor, causing the xruns? This would greatly help to find the real cause
of
the trouble. However I find it hard to  believe that the low latency 2.6
kernel
would allow any single process to tie up the processor for nearly a fifth of
a second.

I'd like to believe that this is a hardware problem that will simply go away
by throwing
a few hundred bucks at it, but when playing back sounds via OSS I don't
experience any interruptions in the sound.

Replacing my audigy w/breakoutbox is an option, but only if I can be sure
that it
will actually help. I'd prolly go for a hammerfall as I actually have use
for ADAT I/O.
However before spending hundreds, it would be nice to know for sure that it
will
solve the problem. Anyone here with solid jack audio on a low end soundcard?
If so, which one? I might get one just to try if the problem is over there.

I'm also a developer so if needed I can fire up ddd. Any more suggestions?

Thanks,
Marc Brevoort

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Re: xruns issues and out of clues. Help please? Install log inc..

Alfons Adriaensen
On Fri, May 20, 2005 at 08:24:50AM +0000, Marc Brevoort wrote:

> However before spending hundreds, it would be nice to know for sure that it
> will
> solve the problem. Anyone here with solid jack audio on a low end soundcard?
> If so, which one? I might get one just to try if the problem is over there.

Jack works well for me with the on-board things in both my desktop and laptop.

But I remember that forgetting

  --with-default-tmpdir=/dev/shm

when configuring the jackd build gave me really _long_ xruns, while other
problems would typically produce short ones.

--
FA



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Re: xruns issues and out of clues. Help please? Install log inc...

Robert Jordens-3
In reply to this post by Marc Brevoort
On Thu, 19 May 2005 07:35:13 +0000, Marc Brevoort wrote:

> I'm longing to get the rock solid audio performance which should be
> possible with Linux. Here's my install log (install of mplayer and X.org
> cut out for brevity). Other than throwing out the Audigy, what have I
> missed?

Your description sounds pretty complete, especially from the Debian/Ubuntu
point of view. I'd try throwing out hardware (usb...), unloading modules
(network, framebuffer...) and stopping X (running some tests from the
console). And maybe try the (more recent) jackd from Debian experimental
(but that requires you to recompile _all_ JACK applications yourself, YMMV).

And you could try this:

http://www.alsa-project.org/~iwai/alsa.html#LatencyTest

Might give you a hint.

        Robert.



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Re: Re: xruns issues and out of clues. Help please? Install log inc...

Paul Davis
>console). And maybe try the (more recent) jackd from Debian experimental
>(but that requires you to recompile _all_ JACK applications yourself, YMMV).

what was the version change that this corresponds to? JACK changes
have very rarely required app recompilation ...

--p


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Re: Re: xruns issues and out of clues. Help please? Install log inc...

Robert Jordens-2
Hello!

[Fri, 20 May 2005] Paul Davis wrote:
> >console). And maybe try the (more recent) jackd from Debian experimental
> >(but that requires you to recompile _all_ JACK applications yourself, YMMV).
>
> what was the version change that this corresponds to? JACK changes
> have very rarely required app recompilation ...

I don't know exactly what version was it but at least jamin
(compiled against 0.99.0) fails with:

jamin: relocation error: jamin: undefined symbol: jack_create_thread

when using libjack 0.99.61 and jackd 0.99.61. I guess that function was
changed/removed between 0.99.0 and 0.99.61.

        Robert.

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Re: Re: xruns issues and out of clues. Help please? Install log inc...

Jack O'Quin
Robert,

On 5/20/05, Robert Jordens <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Hello!
>
> [Fri, 20 May 2005] Paul Davis wrote:
> > >console). And maybe try the (more recent) jackd from Debian experimental
> > >(but that requires you to recompile _all_ JACK applications yourself, YMMV).
> >
> > what was the version change that this corresponds to? JACK changes
> > have very rarely required app recompilation ...

You really should remember this one, Paul.  ;-)
 
> I don't know exactly what version was it but at least jamin
> (compiled against 0.99.0) fails with:
>
> jamin: relocation error: jamin: undefined symbol: jack_create_thread
>
> when using libjack 0.99.61 and jackd 0.99.61. I guess that function was
> changed/removed between 0.99.0 and 0.99.61.

It is true that jamin-0.9.0 will not work with newer versions of JACK.
You'll need the recently released jamin-0.95.0, which handles Paul's
incompatible change to jack_create_thread().  The new interface is
jack_client_create_thread().

As far as we know, this is the *only* application that must be recompiled
because of that change.  Maybe there are others, but none have been
reported.

So, you probably should not instruct people to recompile *all* their JACK
clients.
--
 joq


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Re: Re: xruns issues and out of clues. Help please? Install log inc...

Robert Jordens-2
Hello!

[Fri, 20 May 2005] Jack O'Quin wrote:
> It is true that jamin-0.9.0 will not work with newer versions of JACK.
> You'll need the recently released jamin-0.95.0, which handles Paul's
> incompatible change to jack_create_thread().  The new interface is
> jack_client_create_thread().

Hmmm. My experience was a different one. jamin-0.95.0 compiled against
libjack 0.99.0 fails if run with libjack 0.99.61. No jamin-0.9.0
involved here.

> As far as we know, this is the *only* application that must be recompiled
> because of that change.  Maybe there are others, but none have been
> reported.

$ apt-cache rdepends libjack0.80.0-0 | wc -l
170

Phew....

> So, you probably should not instruct people to recompile *all* their JACK
> clients.

Yes. I thought about that. Being pedantic, even API changes that do not
cause failures in any of the currently 170 JACK related things force a
new SONAME since there may be something that _will_ be compiled against
JACK 0.99.0 (which will remain throughout the existance of Debian sarge,
which could well be a few years) in the future and could break if the
user installs libjack 0.99.61 (or above). With that reasoning I'm left
with "API different" or "API not different".

        Robert.

--
The work [of software development] is becoming far easier (i.e. the tools
we're using work at a higher level, more removed from machine, peripheral
and operating system imperatives) than it was twenty years ago, and because
of this, knowledge of the internals of a system may become less accessible.
We may be able to dig deeper holes, but unless we know how to build taller
ladders, we had best hope that it does not rain much.
                -- Paul Licker

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Re: Re: xruns issues and out of clues. Help please? Install log inc...

Jack O'Quin
On 5/20/05, Robert Jordens <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hello!
>
> [Fri, 20 May 2005] Jack O'Quin wrote:
> > It is true that jamin-0.9.0 will not work with newer versions of JACK.
> > You'll need the recently released jamin-0.95.0, which handles Paul's
> > incompatible change to jack_create_thread().  The new interface is
> > jack_client_create_thread().
>
> Hmmm. My experience was a different one. jamin-0.95.0 compiled against
> libjack 0.99.0 fails if run with libjack 0.99.61. No jamin-0.9.0
> involved here.

jamin-0.95.0 detects which interface to use at compile time.  So,
compiled against an earlier libjack, it will fail and require recompilation.
But, jamin-0.9.0 does not work at all with the latest JACK versions.
 

> > As far as we know, this is the *only* application that must be recompiled
> > because of that change.  Maybe there are others, but none have been
> > reported.
>
> $ apt-cache rdepends libjack0.80.0-0 | wc -l
> 170
>
> Phew....
>
> > So, you probably should not instruct people to recompile *all* their JACK
> > clients.
>
> Yes. I thought about that. Being pedantic, even API changes that do not
> cause failures in any of the currently 170 JACK related things force a
> new SONAME since there may be something that _will_ be compiled against
> JACK 0.99.0 (which will remain throughout the existance of Debian sarge,
> which could well be a few years) in the future and could break if the
> user installs libjack 0.99.61 (or above). With that reasoning I'm left
> with "API different" or "API not different".

Yes, I understand what a pain in the butt this is.  As we used to say,
"being `slightly' binary incompatible is like being a little bit pregnant".
--
 joq


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Re: xruns issues and out of clues. Help please? Install log inc..

Marc Brevoort
In reply to this post by Marc Brevoort
Hi,

>Jack works well for me with the on-board things in both my desktop and
>laptop.
>But I remember that forgetting
>   --with-default-tmpdir=/dev/shm
>
>when configuring the jackd build gave me really _long_ xruns, while other
>problems would typically produce short ones.

OK, it seems things are in a usable state now. Ten minutes of heavy abuse
(banging
the synth with sustain pedal pressed while playing back a media file and at
the same time recording softsynth output to another file AND browsing the
web) gave exactly one xrun of a few msec. No jack connections dropped. Looks
like we're getting somewhere :D

Anyway the main difference with the install log I posted earlier was taking
out the following lines that I had put in /etc/fstab:

shmfs       /dev/shm     shm    defaults        0       0
none /tmp/jack tmpfs defaults 0 0

What should work better, my current setup or enabling the shmfs line AND
reconfiguring jack  --with-default-tmpdir=/dev/shm?

Best regards,
Marc Brevoort

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Re: xruns issues and out of clues. Help please? Install log inc..

Fons Adriaensen
On Sat, May 21, 2005 at 09:10:30AM +0000, Marc Brevoort wrote:

> What should work better, my current setup or enabling the shmfs line AND
> reconfiguring jack  --with-default-tmpdir=/dev/shm?

I'm no expert on this :-(.

On my system (SL9.2) mount tells me:

   tmpfs on /dev/shm type tmpfs (rw)

but there is no reference to it in /etc/fstab. AFAIK, it's created
automagically by 2.6 kernels - I remember having to add it myself
while I was on 2.4.

Do you have a tmpfs on /dev/shm when you remove the lines you added
to /etc/fstab ? If so, building jackd --with-default-tmpdir=/dev/shm
should work well - it's what I do.

--
FA



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Re: xruns issues and out of clues. Help please? Install log inc..

Robert Jordens-3
In reply to this post by Marc Brevoort
On Sat, 21 May 2005 09:10:30 +0000, Marc Brevoort wrote:

>>Jack works well for me with the on-board things in both my desktop and
>>laptop.
>>But I remember that forgetting
>>   --with-default-tmpdir=/dev/shm
>>
>>when configuring the jackd build gave me really _long_ xruns, while other
>>problems would typically produce short ones.
>
> OK, it seems things are in a usable state now. Ten minutes of heavy abuse
> (banging
> the synth with sustain pedal pressed while playing back a media file and
> at the same time recording softsynth output to another file AND browsing
> the web) gave exactly one xrun of a few msec. No jack connections dropped.
> Looks like we're getting somewhere :D
>
> Anyway the main difference with the install log I posted earlier was
> taking out the following lines that I had put in /etc/fstab:
>
> shmfs       /dev/shm     shm    defaults        0       0
> none /tmp/jack tmpfs defaults 0 0

Funny. Compare that line with the current output of "mount". You should
find the same line in there (I have "tmpfs on /dev/shm type tmpfs (rw)").
The Debian (and I hope Ubnuntu too) glibc packages mount a tmpfs (tmpfs
and shmfs are the same) in /etc/init.d/mountvirtfs during boot.

> What should work better, my current setup or enabling the shmfs line AND
> reconfiguring jack  --with-default-tmpdir=/dev/shm?

The Debian and Ubuntu JACK packages are compiled with that option as you
can see from "jackd -V". That shouldn't make a difference.

        Robert.



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Re: xruns issues and out of clues. Help please? Install log inc..

David Mulcahy
In reply to this post by Marc Brevoort
On Saturday 21 May 2005 10:10, Marc Brevoort wrote:

> Hi,
>
> >Jack works well for me with the on-board things in both my desktop and
> >laptop.
> >But I remember that forgetting
> >   --with-default-tmpdir=/dev/shm
> >
> >when configuring the jackd build gave me really _long_ xruns, while other
> >problems would typically produce short ones.
>
> OK, it seems things are in a usable state now. Ten minutes of heavy abuse
> (banging
> the synth with sustain pedal pressed while playing back a media file and at
> the same time recording softsynth output to another file AND browsing the
> web) gave exactly one xrun of a few msec. No jack connections dropped.
> Looks like we're getting somewhere :D
>
> Anyway the main difference with the install log I posted earlier was taking
> out the following lines that I had put in /etc/fstab:
>
> shmfs       /dev/shm     shm    defaults        0       0
> none /tmp/jack tmpfs defaults 0 0
>
My guess is it is already using /dev/shm and it is pretty much well tuned.  
From my experiences the distros do a pretty good job.  start jack and then
ls /dev/shm/jack to see if it is using /dev/shm.

If you really want to experiment in performance tuning then you need the
realtime-preempt patchset. One other thing might be to recompe jack for your
particular arch - I am not sure how much of an improvement this will bring
though.

Like I mentioned in an earlier post realtime-patchset works straight out of
the box on The Planet Distro.  The jack docs can be somewhat out of date
and/or differ from how a distro does things so the best advice I can give is
for the majority of users is to rely on your distro - It usually works out of
the box and more often than not they do a better job of tuning.  

Dave


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Re: xruns issues and out of clues. Help please? Install log inc..

Marc Brevoort
In reply to this post by Marc Brevoort
>Funny. Compare that line with the current output of "mount". You should
>find the same line in there (I have "tmpfs on /dev/shm type tmpfs (rw)").

Yes, indeed it's already there.

>The Debian and Ubuntu JACK packages are compiled with that option as you
>can see from "jackd -V". That shouldn't make a difference.

Right on: jackd version 0.99.0 tmpdir /dev/shm protocol 13

I guess that's all I have to ask for now regarding the xruns topic... a big
THANK YOU to all that helped out!

Marc Brevoort

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